InterChange Conference on Woolf's The Waves (pp.182-297)
June 27, 2000


Karin Westman:
As Laura told us yesterday, Woolf wrote the following to G. L. Dickinson about *The Waves*: "I wanted to give the sense of continuity, instead of which most people say, no you've given the sense of flowing and passing away and that nothing matters. Yet I feel things matter quite immensely. What the significance is, heaven knows I can't guess; but there is significance -- that I feel overwhelmingly" (Letter #2460, 27 Oct 1931).


Do you think that Woolf's novel conveys "the sense of continuity" or "the sense of flowing and passing away and that nothing matters"? What might be the "significance" offered in the novel, especially by the end?


Elizabeth Davis:
time---last night's reading connected time and life experiences. the sense of continuity comes from time moving, like waves. the characters evolve further and things that matter change, as all perceptions do with maturity. i didn't get to the end.


Banks Yatsula:
absolutely the novel conveys a sense of continuity. the structure itself of the novel is continuous and im sure it was very difficult to stick to the form in which it was written. in the greater sense of the word, the novel conveys the idea that life is a continuous process with its ebbing and flowing, we as humans are here to embrace it and not everyone embraces it the same way. And even more importantly, each person changes in the course of life so that we may fell, at any given moment, something different about the same thing.


Elizabeth Davis:
definate continuity because they are interactive throughout life


Doug Grant:
I was going to say the same thing Elizabeth did. The passage of time is like the waves and their is definitely a signifcance, even if it is an elusive one.


Banks Yatsula:
it is not necessarily the idea that nothing matters, because things do matter....it seems more the question of how and when things matter and at which point do we let go of what once mattered?


Karin Westman:
So what exactly about time are we to take away from the novel? That we should embrace it? That we have a choice? That we should use it in a cetain way?


Elizabeth Davis:
they are connected because they measure time together and expericence time differently. that fascinates me. how does it end?


Doug Grant:
What matters and what doesn't matter does not effect continuity, although the importance of what does really matter has a direct bearing on how we percieve the overall continuity.


Jennifer Boyd Cook:
I don't feel the novel is expressing a real "sense of continuity," despite Woolf's intentions. I think the reflections and experiences of the characters do flow and pass, but I don't believe that because of a lack of continuity that the novel and all of the characters somehow don't convey any "meaning." I think there is meaning there, but that it's sort of poetical, and I think it alludes the reader because he or she might have expectations for a work set in a novel form which depend on themes which are more conrete. Like Woolf, though, I'm having difficulty on pin-pointing what exactly the meaning is. Maybe it is to embrace life's unpredictabilities and our multiple identities to their fullest potential. If things weren't so impermanent, then nothing would matter.


Banks Yatsula:
oddly, I enjoyed the lst part of the novel much more that the first. It seems to speak to that part of us which is able to see youth and able to appreciate youth and its innocence which we may have lost, and i have not yet decided if its loss is a good thing, but it certainly is eye-opening


Elizabeth Davis:
time is a choice, rather, time is used constructively in differen fasets. time is also continouous, like rolling waves, and should be embraced in the moment or in retrospection, as all characters do.


Karin Westman:
Given that we get Bernard's view of his life in the last section, does he feel he has used his time constuctively? And want makes actions "constructive"? (i.e: Helping yourself? Helping others?)


Doug Grant:
The issue of time is so complicated because although hardly anyone would argue against the fact that time moves too rapidly, here the question is whether or not it should be embraced.


Elizabeth Davis:
and, because time is continuous there is a sense of permanance. Bernard says "our live too stream away, down the unlighted avenues, past the strip of time, unidentified"(227)--i guess that means life and time are continuous and are defined only in the moment. and past moments get blurred and significant memories and ideas fade, like the poem in his head.


Banks Yatsula:
yes i think that the word "constructive" does play a part in time and its passage. somehow, if we think we have been constructive, we are able to eal with time's passage much more easily. On the other hand, if we think time has been wasted we feel worthless and depressed, as if we amount to nothing


Karin Westman:
What, then, does Woolf's novel offer as the better way (if not the "right" way) to live life, to experience time?


Doug Grant:
I agree with Banks in that we need to feel we have been construcitve in using time and hope that we don't look back and see that we've wasted it.


Jennifer Boyd Cook:
I agree with Banks about the concept of how things "matter" in the book. Placing meaning on something is very fluid for each of the book's characters.
Do you feel maybe Woolf wants us to abandon our fixations on time and using it to its fullest? Do you feel she wants us to escape into unpredictability and just experience, rather than trying to capture every moment in a story the way Bernard does?


Elizabeth Davis:
Neville says the best way to experience time is to keep walking (227).


Banks Yatsula:
on pg 288....Bernard asks himself if he is "one and distinct" and cannot find division between himself and the others....that is sort of deoressing but it is accurate because ultimately we (our bodies and our minds) are bound by the constraints of time...We all age we all deteriorate...thus in this way we are one; we share the experience of that journey through life and into the journey of death.


Elizabeth Davis:
woolf seems to think the best way to experience time is live for the moment but recall the past.


Doug Grant:
I didn't really think of Jennifer's question until she asked it, but now I think that maybe that is one idea that Woolf is trying to convey, to stop concentrating on time so much and just go with the flow.


Banks Yatsula:
I see Elizabeth D,'s point.....we must live with a passion, but we must also be able to look at those passions a smomentary and then be able to embrace something else......without this ability to be mutable we surely shall perish within our own minds


Karin Westman:
So, Neville is one who recognizes the need to keep on walking, as ELizabeth mentions, though he also likes the stability of his room and poems. What about hte other characters? How well are they able to negotiate this flux of time that we've been identifying?


Elizabeth Davis:
and isn't the point of the book to explore six perceptions of the same experience? woolf then would be saying we experience life intellectually, emotionally, physically, etc. at different times. one cannot explore all human facets at the same time. right?


Karin Westman:
Good point, Elizabeth, about Woolf's emphasis on living in the present/recalling the past. Is there one character who can do this best?


Elizabeth Davis:
"going with the flow" is a perfect phrase, Jennifer and Doug.


Banks Yatsula:
well, since we hear the most from Bernard, we are able to see his ability to recall the past. But it is hard to say if he truly lived in the present...he was certainly obsessed with recording the present.


Doug Grant:
I'd say that Bernard is the character who we should most concentrate on concerning this question about time passing and how we should approach viewing it.


Banks Yatsula:
on the other hand, it does seem as though Jinny had a more difficult time with aging, I say this mostly because she was all about the physical and about socializing. She continued to apply that lipstick and to receive visitors...it is a sthough she lived on the surface to some degree. But she was also aware of it.


Jennifer Boyd Cook:
Do you feel Woolf doesn't want us to view time as constraining? From the way she presents her characters, we must infer their age or certain stages within their life. Why do you feel that Woolf felt (assuming she felt this way because she didn't include it) age and other details were not necessary in creating her characters? While their thoughts all convey different impressions of the life around them, they seemed wrap up into one consciousness. I'm sure everonne's tired of talking about the time theme, but maybe the idea of these characters experiencing things simultaneously reduces the friction between living and an impending sense of fleeting time.


Banks Yatsula:
so again, what are we to do with time's passage? hmmmm....


Karin Westman:
OK: So, so far we have Woolf representing a sense of continuity, rather than only a passing away, and that there may be significance in Bernard's approach towards experience above others'. Any other thoughts her on what "significance" you all feel we are asked to draw from the book?


Elizabeth Davis:
Neville and Bernard seem to be the strongest "recallers." but jinny say's "time's fangs have ceased their devouring. We have triumphed over the abysses of space, awith rought,e with powder, with flimsy pocket-handkerchiefs" she recalls the past by acknowledging the present.


Karin Westman:
So, there may be some way to feel conneted, feel in control of this continuity through material objects, too?


Karin Westman:
Jennifer's offered a good point here about the tension between imposed ideas/orders of time and fluidity: Characters certainly do feel constrained by time, in a negative way: Is it ever helpful, too?


Banks Yatsula:
it seems important to mention that when one views the past, one's view is tainted by the present. Perhaps that is why we feel as though "nothing matters," and why we always feel as though we "must. Must. MUST." We must so that we may apply meaning to our lives, for if there is no meaning then time has been wasted.....it's a cycle just as the waves are.


Elizabeth Davis:
sure, it makes sense that one would try to control time with objects...like flowers, make-up, studies. the outcome is the same....the only way to control time is suicide. otherwise, time keeps moving and takes you with it.


Jennifer Boyd Cook:
I thought Elizabeth's point about the multiplke perceptions of the same experience is important. The multiplicities of experiencing is an idea I feel Woolf might want her readers to grab most.


Karin Westman:
The tyranny of the word "must" then is in tension with the fluidity of experiencing the world: the must is necessary to give some meaning but will necessarily limit (perhaps even helpfully limit, otherwise you can end up like Rhoda?)?


Doug Grant:
Maybe the best way to come to a conclusion about this question of time is to move away from it as an issue and concentrate more on the idea of perception. Time is made a negative thing only through characters' perceptions, so a change in that might help to achieve a better understanding


Banks Yatsula:
so perhaps there is something about life that leaves us with the feeling of things left undone....like Bernard's book, or like the grass is always greener; this seems tied to the ideas of imperialism, the need to conquer....but then there is always the need to break away from this constraint and the need to appreciate the natural placement of things and acknowledge the beauty of differences---between countries and individuals


Karin Westman:
Good point, Doug, about time being a perception: even the "structure" of the day interludes are the way humans interpret time.


****As a final posting, offer these three items:
1. one theme that you think Woolf explores in the novel, 2. an example of it, and 3. say whether you think it's a theme of To the Lighthouse, too.


Banks Yatsula:
The "must" definitely constrains. It is not any different today. There is always teh desire to be the best, to have the most, and then there are those who wish to reject this "best and Most" attitude. Louis was caught up in this "must" was hw not?


Doug Grant:
1. Are we using our time wisely and living our lives to the fullest, are we going to regret not choosing another path?
2 Bernard's struggle through the novel to answer this question is an example
3. Definitely pertains to themes from To the Lighthouse


Elizabeth Davis:
woof wants the reader to explore the perception of time and its effects over the course of life. Bernard says "we have been walking for hours it seeems. But where? i cannot remember...i am not called upon to give my opinion"(235). he equates memory with opinion and opinions, as noted earlier, change. therefore, memory offers a skewed perception.
as for the Lighthouse, memory and time are parallel themes here.


Jennifer Boyd Cook:
Woolf wants her readers to appreciate the multiple ways of experience life, of interpreting it, etc. There is a passage setting up Bernard's and Neville's contemplations over identity on pg. 75. There is a flower sitting on a window-sill and then there is the image or reflection of the flower in the window-sill. Woolf writes, "Yet the phantom was part of the flower, for when a bud broke free, the paler flower in the glass opened a bud, too." (75). This highlights the theme of varying impressions Woolf's characters get as they go through life. While there many instances in which each character chimes in with a different version of the same experience, I think this image is reminding the reader that for everything that happens, there is a refelction of it in multiple impressions, and that identity and perception demand this multiplicity to be complete.


Banks Yatsula:
!. the tyranny of time and the mutability of self.
2. Bernard is ultimately subjected to time's passage, and it seems to leave him as a subject of time' passage. He seems to be represented as a chronicler (is that a word?) even if is ultimately one of the casualties of time itself.
3. This idea of time as permanant and unwavering and of humans as merely caught up in the natural scheme of things seems to be a big issue in both novels, only the idea is taken to fruition with The Waves


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